Ukrainian troops are mounting us stiffer than expected resistance to
Russian forces. And that is thanks in no small
part to the flood of weapons provided by Western countries
in particular, the javelin missile NATO countries, including
the US have sent thousands of anti tank missiles,
including the javelin missiles to Ukraine. So to help
us understand how this technology works and why it's proving
so effective. We're joined now by Bloomberg, senior
reporter for International Affairs Marc Champion Mark. Thanks as
always for being here. Tell us more about the
javelin missile because it's the newest, most modern incarnation
of antitank missiles. Can you explain how it works
and why it's so effective? Well, you know
, briefly, it's a so called third generation of
tank antitank weapon and what makes it different. Uh
, is that essentially it will uh, go over
a tank will fly up uh, and then it
will come down onto the roof of the tank where
there's less armor. So it's able to puncture a
tank. And in a way that other weapons that
hit the sides where there's more armor hanging off,
there's explosive armor that sort of pushes missiles away.
Um, it it isn't a protection there. Um
, so that's one part of it. The other
is that it's a so called fire and forget missile
. So essentially the person using it just shoots it
and can immediately get away because as soon as you
fire an antitank missile or any missile of that sort
, you give your position away and the other side
can just fire straight back. Um, so this
allows you, you know, with older weapons,
you more or less, the sort of called wire
guided mess weapons, you you have to stand there
and wait until it actually hits. I see,
I see. So the missiles rained down upon the
tank at its most vulnerable area, which is on
top. What does the increased usage of javelin missiles
and these anti tank missiles signal about the war?
Well, you know, they won't win you a
war. Um you know, I'm not a,
you know, a military expert, but I have
spoken to people who, you know, think about
this stuff all the time and what they say is
they won't win you a war, but they there
are a lot of them in Ukraine now an extraordinary
density. So there's every time that the Russians,
you know, make a maneuver with their tanks or
their convoys, uh then they have to, they
have to worry that whoever meets them is going to
have some of these and would be able to destroy
them. Uh So it it really does change the
calculations of the other side. And you've seen a
couple of uh you know, several videos where the
Russians have tried to break into Kiev with quite large
convoys of tanks and a Pcs and um you know
, antiaircraft mobile anti aircraft, there's a whole unit
, It was trying trying to break into the city
uh and then was ambushed uh and you know,
they had to retreat. All kind of 2030 or
more vehicles had to suddenly get into reverse and treat
retreat and they lost several. And and that really
means that the Russians have to think differently about how
they're going to take a city right now. I
think that's a really important point to make, which
is as effective as these missiles are. They don't
change the fact that Russia is in attack mode and
Ukraine is defending itself. And so while the weaponry
makes it harder for Russia to achieve its goal,
it'll probably drag out the fighting. The fact remains
that Russia's goal is still within reach and in this
case it is to take the capital. What's been
the damage so far? What can you tell us
about the damage, the damage to the, to
the right? Um, well, you know,
the numbers are always incredibly difficult in, in wartime
, especially casualties and losses because each side basically reduces
their own and increases the opposition's. But we do
now have, uh, you know what they call
open source intelligence, basically, people who spend a
lot of time on social media Just looking for images
and then deal locating and verifying basically that these are
real. Um, and making sure you don't double
count. So roughly that the Russians have lost about
215 or so tanks Now around, you know,
a little under 80 of those were destroyed or damaged
. Uh, and, and the rest either captured
or abandoned. Okay. And we actually showed a
graphic earlier as well, since we're on numbers where
the UK sent about 3600 of these next generation missiles
, Anti tank missiles, Germany has sent about 1000
Norway, 2000 Sweden 5000 and the U. S
. Has sent them over. But we don't know
how many um how do Russian forces adapt to the
use of these weapons? Because it changes the contour
of the battle And I know you're not a military
expert, but there is a history that we can
draw upon here. Right? Because Israel, for
instance, confronted the use of anti tank missiles against
it in 1973 during the Yom kippur war. Yeah
, that's right. So they had just fought the
1967 war and had been very successful. Not faced
a lot of resistance to their tanks. Um,
and then in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the
Egyptians had in the meantime bought what then was the
latest technology and anti tank weapons from the soviet Union
. And those were wire guided and suddenly the Israelis
were taking significant losses. So they now had to
rethink how they would fight. Um and essentially what
it boils down to is is that, you know
, whereas before you would move the tanks forward and
your infantry behind, you know, to protect them
, you then have to put your infantry out front
to protect protect tanks just to clear away any of
these anti tank missiles that they're going to be there
. Um And that's basically what the Russians will have
to do going into the cities and in order to
go in, you then need to prepare the ground
. And that's where it gets really ugly because it
means more artillery shelling, more proper preparation of the
ground so that you know the defenders are in shock
or in hiding. And then you know the worst
comes when you need to get you know too if
they decide that they need to remove the defense even
when they're underground because then you use different kinds of
weapons which are truly brutal. Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean what you're describing sounds like a really long
drawn out urban warfare which is damaging to both sides --> .