WEBVTT

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the U. S. Supreme Court decision overturning roe

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v wade means abortion. It was for all intents

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banned in texas legally. We have a lot of

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questions. Good morning to attorney and S. M

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. U. Law Professor Joanna Grossman, the cylinder

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chair in Women and and the law at S.

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M. U. S. Deadman Law School.

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So the battle could now be between the federal government

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and the states. How might that shape up?

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I think the battle is between the federal government and

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the states and also among states. Right, so

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the federal government is taking the position, for example

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, that medication abortion which has been approved by the

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FDA up until the 10th week of gestation cannot be

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banned by an individual state. So that's one place

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. We're going to see a significant conflict. And

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then of course, we're gonna see conflicts among the

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states where some states have tried to make abortion available

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to out of state residents and tried to protect their

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providers. And other states have tried to do the

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opposite right to prevent their own citizens from leaving the

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state to seek abortions elsewhere. It isn't travel between

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the states and business between the states regulated by the

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federal government. Once you cross the state line and

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go into, for example, New Mexico, it's

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not texas business anymore. The interstate commerce clause.

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Yeah. It's not just the interstate commerce clause,

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there is a interstate right to travel which Justice Kavanaugh

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mentioned in his concurring opinion or his separate opinion in

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this in Dobbs. But um I think it's really

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a question of how the courts will interpret some of

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the things that state legislatures have tried to do.

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I think in a more ordinary time we would feel

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comfort that of course you can leave the state to

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do whatever is legal in that state. But I

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think there are a lot of gray areas here,

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in part because of how aggressive some of these state

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legislatures have been. So, I think the question

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is not so much could texas criminalize something that happens

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in new Mexico, but could it criminalize people in

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texas who help other people in texas get to new

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Mexico? So in other words, a physician or

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any provider who provides either medication or an abortion to

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a texas woman might face prosecution under texas law,

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might be extradited to texas to be put on trial

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for a crime. I think it's less likely that

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the provider in another state would be subject to liability

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, but perhaps the fund who gave her the money

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to get there or the person who drove her there

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or the group that advised her about interstate options.

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I think that's more likely to be the behavior that's

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targeted. Although I don't think it's out of the

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question that states like texas might try to actually get

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providers. I don't think they would succeed. It

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was not that terribly long ago that texas under very

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different laws banned, for example, shipping alcohol into

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the state of texas from out of state, uh

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, that that has gone away. Now, could

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the state of texas also ban the shipment by postal

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service by fedex by ups by courier of an abortion

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medication. About half the abortions in this country are

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medication, not surgical abortions. And I think first

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of all medication, abortion is the great limit on

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the antiabortion state's ability to control this right. If

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medication is readily available and can be used by so

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many people to terminate pregnancies, that's going to be

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harder for those states to police. Um but I

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think states, some states have tried to ban the

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shipment into the state um whether they will succeed is

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really gonna be a question for the courts. As

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I said in a in a lot of ways,

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we're in kind of unprecedented territory in this war.

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We've had lots of fights among states about different kinds

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of conduct over the course of history. But there's

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some really unique aspects to the way these laws have

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been written and the way um technology has changed access

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. So I think we just don't know the answer

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to all of the questions, but we know that

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some states, including texas, will try to reach

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as much conduct as they can, Joanna Grossman,

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Professor from the S. M. U. Dedman

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School of Law. Thanks so much for joining us

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this morning. Thank you for having me